Dear teacher,

After reading 1 Corinthians 10 in my daily quiet times, i have a question? How do we explain about "fall away"? Is that spiritual or organizational terminology? Can salvation be gone or lost from a christian? If so, what about God's forgiveness, The Cross, and His Unconditional Love? What about holy spirit in the christian that received after been baptized? Is he gone too?

Hey there,Naek,

Sin goes like James 1:13-16. We don't just loose

salvation. It can be given away when we decide

not to repent or to change the sin that has been

brought to our attention by two or more witnesses.(1 John 1:9)

As soon as the person is willing to repent then

God can freely forgive at any point.  God can

even forgive even if we don't repent. As far as the

Holy Spirit, We are not to grieve it by sinning but

I don't honestly know what happens to Him/Her/It.

God will always have the unconditional love so don't

ever doubt it. psalms 103:1-22. Enjoy being a berean.

Hope this helps

Heidi Holly

Oh and by the way I am not a Teacher but have been a disciple of Christ for 19 years.

HeidiHolly

Thank you HeidiHolly

Our churches need many teachers

So:

1. "fall away" is an organizational terminology.

2. God's love is unconditional but we or our love are conditional

3. God is faithful but we are unfaithful and able to change.

What about restoration? What does it really mean?

I am not sure that restoration is an actual Bible term but I will check on it. But people

need to have a term to mean that they are back to God which is what repentance is.

When we repent we become justified which is just as if I'd never sinned. Gordon Fergison

(please excuse spelling) has a book about the subject and it helped me to understand

repentance and justification. Restoration is used in the old testament to talk about putting

back God's Temple mostly. I didn't see a new testament scripture about it. We use the word restore

to mean to come back to the fellowship of believers. But I do see in Galatians 6:1 that we are to restore someone gently

if they are caught in sin. The key word is gently also to be careful not to be tempted ourselves.

Restoring is to bring back to a former status. I don't see that God wants us to "beat ourselves up" over

when we have sinned and want to change(repent). That is an opinion but not a true fact of scripture of God.

He wants a relationship with us.

Heidiholly 

Thank you HeidyHolly. About holy spirit we could not find the answer yet. During restoration is he reload or re-active or re-visit (sorry for using that terms).

And, can we say the death of thousands people of Israel in the desert is part of God's Unconditional Love (see 1 Corinthians 10)?

Naek

I am not a teacher either and would really like for one to come on up here and help us out, but here are my thoughts as one who has "fallen away" Maybe a more accurate term than 'fall away' for me would be a "wanderer away". Trying a little humor here.

1 Timothy 6:20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, 21which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.

  James 5:19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

I think this passage shows that someone could wander from the truth and be brought back (one who had become a disciple) and that the person brought back would be saved from death. It is passages like this and the ones below (link provided) that help strengthen my convictions. When I had 'wandered away back in 2003 and during the next 4 years, my convictions were pretty weak on this subject, not knowing exactly what to believe. (The Prodigal Son parable wasn't enough for me - I needed more to go on - these helped)

A couple of OT passages to help us also...

 1Cor 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

 EZEK 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.

25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. 27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. 28 Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Also Dt 29:14 - Dt 30:6

In Unity w/ Love, Byron

Thank you Byron. So far i can understand what you mean. But i still have some questions:

1. Is "fallen away" or "wanderer away" from church same with "fallen away" or "wanderer away" from God?

2. How do we know a real "fallen away" instead of just a "wanderer away" and will be back again to church in the future?

I have one study i can say ex-disciple. His life is not really much different with disciple. He still do his quiet time. He still aware and protect himself from sins. The only thing difference is that he is not in our church. Can we say that he was "fallen away"? In terms of church policy or procedures yes. But what about before God? Was he "fallen away"?

I think i agree with mr. Douglas Jacoby in his article (http://douglasjacoby.com/view_article.php?ID=2841) where he says that leaving the local church is not the same as leaving God. God is peoples judge. But if they will not be part of biblical fellowship, then in the end they will just die. But again, its not our judgment to say when.

Hey there All

I am so greteful( please forgive spelling) for the input you give.

I know alot but you are the best. Thanks we need to all be Bereans.

In Christ,

HeidiHolly 

Thank you Marks! Thank you HeidyHolly! If i may conclude, "fallen away" according to people or church is different with "fallen away" from God. Why? Because God is the true or the real judge. But church need to has something like standardization, policy or procedure so that they have to their own "fallen away" terms. But does not mean to judge or having self-righteous attitude.

One more question, can we judge people by using or based on the Bible? How far we can do or use it?

I think it might be different, but not always.  I think God doesn't wait from us unjudgmental attitude,
we should have judgment on discipling in church or interpreting the bible and so on, but we cannot have the final
judgment or we should also not judge superficially aso. There are different kinds of judgments in the bible.

The bible talks about "fallen away" in term that there is no more hope for this person. The line is crossed and there
is no way back, no repentance and no forgiveness. Where is that line, i think we cannot say that. God knows. But as long
as the person lives and is able to make decisions, i think there is hope for this person. If he repents, then he is not
"fallen away", but a "wanderer away"(James 5:19-20).

We should use the bible in our judging, because bible is God's word and God is our judge. How far can we use bible?
As far as needed and as near as possible :D ...
What did u mean by 'How far can we use the bible'? Be more specific about that, please. I am sure there is a line, but
what did u mean by that question.

13:10 but when what is perfect comes, then what is partial will disappear.
13:11 When I was a child, my speech, feelings, and thinking were all those of a child; now that I am a man, I have no more use for childish ways.
13:12 What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete--as complete as God's knowledge of me

Hi Marks! Referring to the above verses, I Corinthians 13:10-12, what Paul knew that time was only partial. His knowledge was not complete. He said that when what is perfect comes, then what is partial will disappear.

My questions:

1. What is the meaning "what is perfect"?

2. If what Paul knew that time was only partial. What is next? Who have/ hold the rest? Do we have the complete one or "what is perfect" to day?

3. What about bible? Is it contains the complete one or "what is perfect" or still need to be added or stilll not complete or progressive?