I have a question! How do people feel about dating in the church. I don't mean steady dating. I am talking about casual dating. Why can't we go out with people who are not with our church. And, how about going on websites to find casual dates? Your ENCOURAGING input is appreciated!

What would you consider "encouraging" input? I'm a little puzzled by that request.

Dating outside of the church is a bad, bad idea unless you are looking to leave the church (as that is frequently the result). If you are committed to being a part of the church and helping it grow, why would you want to date other people? "Missionary" dating almost never works and it can end up ruining your life and your faith.

Take this from someone who was a part of the singles ministry in our church for 15 years and has seen and experienced a lot.

Finally, disciplestoday is creating a dating/match-making site. I think this is a great idea and is long overdue -- especially for disciples who are a part of smaller, more isolated churches that don't have many singles. You might want to wait and check that out.

Thanks Stephen,

I don't mind opinons or even strong opinions but sometimes people can be not so nice. That is what I meant by encorageing input. I want to make it clear, I am not necessarily looking for someone. I am just thinking about life and wanted to get people's opinions. I am 37 and there is no one at church who is capatable or interested. I am just thinking if I have the same standard with the people i meet what is wrong with that. I do understand that it is different. At least with disciples, even if you don't know them that well you know how the evening is going to go. I don't want to leeave the church and that is not my intention. I also see alot of matchmaking, in the sense the discipling partner is telling there partner who they should go steady with even if its not their first choice. I don't think that is right either. I don't know, just alittle confused.

christina

Christina,

Boy, can this be such a challenging area.  When I went through my divorce, there were only a handful of singles here, and they were all men!!! I remember one of my first thoughts after being single was, why couldn't my wife had done this to me when we were in a large city with a large ministry!

Well, after first coming to grips with being single again after 17 years, I became resolved that if God wanted me to be single the rest of my life, He would bless me in other ways, and I would still be able to be at peace and happy without dating, a relationship, whatever.  It was a hard pill to swallow at first, but it was amazing how it all played out.  I prayed about the fact that my desire was not to be single the rest of my life, but that God would give me the strength to be happy no matter what happened.  Shortly after becoming resolved, a couple of sisters moved here from another congregation.  Amazing things have happened since then, as one of them has become my dearest friend. And we have more in common than anyone I've ever known. It almost seems as if we were made for each other.

So I guess what I'm trying to say, is remember whom it is we serve, and understand how big He is. He promises that we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear, including in our Dating lives.  I am a firmly convinced of the need not to enter un-equal relationships, and agree wholeheartedly with Stephen that Missionary dating will lead to heartach at best, and usually worse.  I am more conviced then ever that if God desires to bless us with a relationship, He will bring it about. We just have to stay strong in the faith, figure out what He is trying to bring about in us with the situation we are currently in, and trust that He loves us more than we can even understand, and wants to bring us the desires of our hearts, at the right time.

YBIC

Paul 

Paul said, "Everything is permissable but not everything is beneficial". We can do anything we want but… I can rob a bank, I can rob God, I can even divorce my wife for any reason if I want…. But…We marry who we get engaged to and we get engaged to who we date. We can be unequally yoked if we want, but…

After six years of being a disciple, this is what I have learned and believe about dating:

I believe that God desires that we, as disciples who are set apart, pursue romantic relationship with a person (disciples/Christians) who can help us live a holy and faithful life for Jesus.

Now about deciding to be in a relationship when you are sure you want to marry that person; disciples have different opinions about this. I believe the church should pray for and set a suggested steady-dating practice to be followed and be united about it. I also believe that if we are to enter a romantic relationship with a disciple, God desires that it will  last forever and not just temporary like that of the world. I learned in a book Boy Meets Girl by Joshua Harris that in a romantic relationship especially with disciples, if the partnership did not work and the two broke up it is really painful for both especially for the girl.

Christina, I can really sympathize with your predicament. When I was in grad school, I developed a relationship via email with a sister in Texas (I was in Illinois). I drove out there for a week on my break and we went out on some dates. Later, we met up somewhere in between for another date. It ultimately didn't work out, but it was a positive experience nonetheless. I later ended up marrying a sister from another country who I met while visiting over the summer.

When I was in London, I met several disciples who married people from other countries. These types of dating/marriage relationships have had varying levels of success (just like more traditional dating experiences).

I guess what I'm saying is that there are other options besides looking outside the church if you're desiring a serious long-term relationship (i.e. marriage).

And for Bob Velez, any type of dating/marriage situation can work if the two people are committed to God and each other. In some countries, arranged marriages are the norm and they are successful at an equal or better rate than non-arranged marriages. It has more to do with the people involved  and their support system than how they end up together.

Christina,

Obviously everyone has their own opinion. My conviction is that dating disciples in our fellowship is the way to go. I’m in a fairly ‘large’ congregation and I dated in the church for 7 years before meeting, dating and marrying my husband. During those 7 years, there were times I went on a lot of dates, and other times I hardly went on any (like 1 or 2 a year). Sometimes it was a struggle and sometimes it wasn’t. The funny thing was that my husband and I knew a ton of the same people and had just never crossed paths! I had dated another guy briefly and he was engaged to another sister. It was all preparation for us to meet and have a fun, effective and pure dating relationship. I honestly don’t think we would have ended up together had we met when I first became a disciple. Its all in God’s timing. I can’t disagree with the other posts that sometimes things work and sometimes they don’t in a number of situations, whether people are disciples or not. I have seen a lot of things and have a lot of stories after being a disciple for 17 years, too. And there are no guarantees for ‘happily ever after’ no matter what anyone does. But I will always hold the conviction that disciples date and marry disciples, period.  I wouldn’t trade my experience for anything. Here’s my input for you. Pray and listen to God and get advice from spiritual people you trust and who know you. I am so grateful that God gave me someone with the same deep convictions I have and who loves God like I do. Do we have the 'perfect' marriage? No. We struggle just like everyone else. But the most comforting thing is knowing that at the end of the day, we both love God first and have the same convictions to get through the good and the bad times. I hope and pray this input is helpful to you! 

And we certainly haven't cornered the market on bad marriages, either. If I were single, I'd still like my chances a lot better with marriages *in* the church.

I guess maybe the question here is what are we talking about when we say 'in' the church?   Do people here feel that you shouldn't date outside the ICOC?   Are folks here considering the ICOC 'the church' (to the exclusion of dating folks in other churches - such as churches of Christ or Christian churches, etc)  or just saying that you should really stick with those that have your same spiritual focus and beliefs?

I'm an old married lady so ,fortunately, I don't have to worry about who to date these days!  But when I was dating (and I was a Christian in a mainline church of Christ at the time) I did stick to just dating folks that I knew held the same convictions and beliefs I did.   And I think it does make a difference in your marriage when you are like-minded and spiritually united.

I do think God works when we least expect it.  I was in my late twenties and my hubby in his thirties when we married.  At the time neither one of us was really 'looking' to get married.  So it was quite a pleasant surprise!  We've been married almost 25 years so it was certainly worth the wait.

toni

Hi - I just saw some of these comments. To be honest, I am a bit bitter about this whole topic. I have been a disciple for 18 years and never considered dating outside the church - but when the brothers won't even build friendships with us - what are we supposed to do? In 2008 - I was asked out on maybe 2 dates by disciples - but I get asked out by men in the world at least once a week (I am an incredible catch :)). It's frustrating that the brothers are either too afraid or self-involved to even build friendships with sisters (except for the ones that they hang around by default).  I have started dating outside - I don't want to, but even God said "It is not good for man to be alone" & when there was a famine in Israel - Naomi's family moved to Moab. Her sons married Moabite women because there were no Israelite women to choose from. A lot of us sisters are in the same predicament. I have suggested that the marrieds help the brothers by setting up dinner dates to get the brothers over whatever it is that makes them this way. I have shared my need for fellowship and friendship with the brothers as well. And "trust God" is very broad. If I "trust God" to get a job, I still need to put out a resume and job hunt...If I "trust God" to direct my life - I still need to make my own choices and move forward....So after 18 years I have started dating men outside. I am still trying to build friendships with brothers (just friendships to start - I am very picky!) but something is really wrong with a lot of our single men in relation to women (not all of you guys) & it's going to take more than an online site- we already have one of those. I really think the married men in the church need to help! I want to be with someone that has the same convictions as I do. I want a partnership where we help people spiritually & serve. But I also want a best friend that I have fun with & can travel with (instead of always needing to find available sisters). I just bought my own home so at least now I won't have to keep moving into new households. Well, I've ranted enough - hope I didn't offend too much. 

Oh my, Are we sister? Well I know in Christ. I think the same exact thing. I would like to thank everyone, I mean every single person on this site for your insight. I am so encouraged by your comments. Regardless of me going through whatever emotional thing I am going through, I am thankful and I praise God that all of you allowed me to open up with my questions. I truly appreciat it. As I am writing this I literally am crying because I feel like someone understands. I feel like the brothers unless you look a certain way or they concentrate on everything their descipline (sp) partners says on who they should go with and what they are "allowed to talk about to a girl" I feel the friendships are fake. Please don't get me wrong. I agree there should be wisdom in what is discussed but to put you should do this this this, it doesn't evolve into anthing that is real. I think i am feeling lonely, even though I am never alone,( I have two kids) and alot going on in my life and I do, don't get me wrong have a relationship with God that is very very important. But, I have felt alot of judgement in the church and I am feeling just very distressed.  I would like to make it clear that my mind is not all on dating. I am 37 years old and just going through something and trying to figure things out. NO One has offended me with any of your responses especially the married men.  I do appreciate and respect all of your Godly insight. Thank you and I think we should continue this discussion becasue I think it needs to be talked about.

thanks

Christina

Well, to say that the dating issue is a touchy and/or sensitive one, is an understatement.  I know that it can be so hard to know which way to go with regard to this.  I understand how one can feel like they are never going to meet anyone whether it is because there is nobody even close to their age inside the church, the deal with only dating (going out with) people in our church, not being asked out on dates for whatever reason, etc.

I have gone through a lot of this subject in the 16 1/2 years in the church.  I am the kind of person that has always wanted to share my life with someone and never did that prior to coming into the church.  I never had a boyfriend and the only marriage I had was one where I knew him 4 months before getting married to him.  I know that I allowed this to happen because of my feeling like I would never meet anyone because of the complex I had about my looks and weight.  I was surprised that someone who looked like him would even think of wanting to be with me, let alone marry me.  Well, of course, through the course of time it became very evident that he was more about looking for someone to be with and take care of him.  The divorce was final the month after I became a disciple.

When I studied the Bible and became a disciple, I did okay on the subject of being involved with only people in our church as I was not looking for a relationship yet.  Even though the double dating was strong then, I was not asked out alot and I felt it had alot to do me being older and possibly not having the looks men wanted.  I found myself praying about meeting someone and being lonely because I was older and the oldest man was at least 10 years younger.  The church has always been known for the members having more women and them being in the younger crowd. I found myself in a situation where I even went to a dating service (got a promotional letter for Valentine's Day) just to check it out.  I was curious. Well, I realized that I was focusing so much on wanting a godly relationship with a man that I neglected to see that I was putting that first in my heart over my 7 yr old son and God.

I got married again.  It was to someone who loved God but was not a member (he was studying the Bible and got baptized afterward).  He was someone who lived across the street from my husband and I, worked with my husband, had studied the Bible with the husband's of the wives who had reached out to me and studied with me, etc.  I had not even thought about him until I had invited him to church after I became a disciple.  To make a long and interesting story short (very interesting how God was at work with at least me bringing this man to him, etc) we got married but it was not with the total blessing of the church since he was not a "member" even though he held the same spiritual love and devotion to God.  We are no longer married after he fell away.  I had a part in losing him too since I struggled with trust and he struggled with lust.  There is much more involved but don't want to write a novel.

I believe the key to all of this is that it should not be that we have to or should only date and marry within the International Churches of Christ as has been the focus throughout my time as a disciple (or at least up until the Henry Kriete Letter came out).  Double dating was alive and well up until that point and then all hell broke loose and attitudes flared and people decided that this as well as other things (that may not have been law from the Bible but good for our protection and soul) were not necessary or that they were not rules and we could not be told we had to follow them.  I felt so sorry for the leadership since they took the brunt of this and the blame.

As for getting involved with brothers (or sisters for that matter) outside "our" church, I believe that it is something that you have to evaluate strongly.  Not because they are not members of "our church" but because as has been said, there are many people who say they are christians and/or love God and even go to church regularly that would not be right for you since they are not truly strong in their convictions about things that are acceptable, etc.  You just have to be sure you are not allowing your emotions and/or your desire to be in a relationship cloud your spiritual judgement.  I have done that and it is a hard thing to stop.  God made us to have relationships and believe that he has a plan for each one of us with regard to having a relationship that grows into marriage.  He does not want us to struggle or fall into lust or sexual situations so he would rather us take a wife or husband.  But, be careful on how you go about it.

I believe there are people outside our church that love God very much and strive to live a life that pleases him.  It may not be exactly how you do it or this church would do it but that is where you would need to find out where they are in life and what they believe and follow, etc.  You should want to invite them out to see where you go to church and the people you interact with.  If the person really loves God and his people he or she would not have an aversion to doing so.  If you meet men outside this church and they are attending another christian-based church, that is at least a positive since they are at least trying in some way to do God's way.  If you are not looking at dating people who do not recognize and follow God according to his Word, you won't have trouble staying away from men like this.  For those that you meet that do not go to church, read their Bible or pray, you have to really ask yourself what are you looking for really?  It may just be that you want so badly to have companionship since we were made to have relationships.  You feel lonely and don't want to live the rest of your life without a boyfriend or husband and that can drive you to choose unwisely.  I have resigned myself to what has been said by at least one person in this site.  If God decides that I will not ever get married or have a dating relationship again until I die, then I will accept this.  The key is if you are not happy where you are in life (i.e., happy as a single)" you are not going to be happy as a married.  It is not the status in life that is going to make you happy.

Now that I have written a novel,  .....  Just know that I understand and applaud the honesty being brought out.

Corinthians 7:39

A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:15

And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

1 Corinthians 4:4

My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

Proverbs 28:26

He who trusts in himself is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe.

Proverbs 14:12

There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

Nehemiah 13:27

Must we hear now that you too are doing all this terrible wickedness and are being unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women?"

1 Timothy 4:16

Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Romans 14:21

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

Hi,

Obviously I have no sense of style but, I belive the best thing you can wear on a date is:

Ehp 6

11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

aloha from hawaii. as for dating out side the church. what is your motivation for doing that? i became single about 5 yrs ago and when i got my final divorce papers. i started dating alot of sisters in this church. i have been on dates 3 times a month every month. my mindset about dating is to encourage the sisters. no matter if they are 25 or 58 yrs old. i took them out on a date even a sister from chicago that i didn't know and she was 58 yrs old. i went on dates all the way till i went steady and also i wanted to remind all of you. is that the KINGDOM is all over the world. not only in your state. so if you want to go on dates just to encourage. then just look towards god and technology. right know i'm happily married for almost 2yrs. know. i'm from hawaii and my wife is from the philippines. i'm not saying that everybody should do what i did but i just wanted you all to be aware that you have brothers and sisters all over the world. so if you still date outside the kingdom. my question is why? i'm sure you can find a date in the kingdom but my advice to everyone that goes on dates eiither in your town or over the phone or internet. is that make sure your foundation is god because when you always put god as your foundation and also always give god the glory. you can see miracles happen. maybe later my wife and i can share with all of you on how we met and just to let you know that my wife and i are not perfect but we have always put god first in our relationship. well anyway. its good to hear different opinions because we are all different but the only thing we have in common is god and his kingdom and we are all brothers and sisters trying to survive in this world. mahalo for your time. the kamis

 Hello,

I think the best thing to do is ask your date. I know I ask my date, even if I did the asking out. I think it opens the communication on the intent about the evening. If you take everyone else opinoin on what u should wear on a date, you could show up wearing something that the other person didn't expect and then its just awkward. That being said" Please don't wear socks with sandals, it really isn't stylish fellows"

I am Chato, my husband just post a message about this topic and i just want to share a bit about my side. A little advice for my sisters out there, if you are looking for a perfect brother, be the perfect sisters to the brothers first. If you want to get encouraged, do encourage the brothers first. And if you are looking for a spiritual brother, be that spiritual sister for them. I always remember when they say, "Spiritual person attracts spiritual perosn, and makes spiritual judgements. it says in the scripture, "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much..." Luke 16:9-11. The question is: Can you be trusted? Not just with a soul but with everything that God has trusted you. Because being married is not just being married but being entrusted with a soul. I also have my share of hurts, cause i've been dating in the church but the person that i thought would protect and respect me, and will help me be more in love with God was the person who made me feel less. It was hurting to the point that i almost leave the church but because of that challenge, it made me remember when i confessed "Jesus Is Lord". And it says, Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Hebrews 11:1-3. What are you hoping for? Is it just to be married or to live to glorify God? For me, i have to wait for 14 years before God reveals His amazing love for me. If i didn't stay faithful, continue to offer myself to God, and fight for my goal, i won't experience an amazing miracle of relationship with my husband. In our Sunday message our goal: PUSH - Pray Until Something Happens. Continue to pray and not give up. For how long? Answer: Until something happens.

Wow, things are getting a little personal here. Brothers and sisters, lets not use this forum to attack.

OK, got that off my chest. I am sure there are some who find this thought offensive, but there is a lot of naivety in understanding "The Church" and "The Kingdom."  Look, I have been a disciple for 21 years. I have seen the ICOC work hard at transforming itself from "let us all be transformed into the image of Kip McCean" to "let God transform us into the image of His son."  But I wonder how many disciples, significantly younger ones, even know the history of the ICOC.  Does the "church" consist soelely of ICOC members, or does it consist of all of those who have repented and been baptized, calling on His name, to wash away their sins?  Where does the traditional Churches of Christ stand, are they all condemned? How about those who are in the ICC, do they stand lost for all eternity? Heaven forbid! Has no one seen people come in to their local congregation, not from another ICOC church, and it was determined they were already a baptized disciple, and they were welcomed with open arms? I have. So, yes, there are baptized disciples, living to God's glory outside of the ICOC. So, a more proper term for the fellowship of the ICOC may be "The Movement." I think if you look over the history of the ICOC, you can see God moving to bring about reformation and a call to return to your first love among the churches. From a group of disciples who wre disgusted at the lack of zeal within the church to today's fellowship of the ICOC, you see some amazing things, and I would urge everyone to learn and understand the history.

Now as far as dating and "The Church."  I think the crux of the matter is to be sure that you are in a relationship where you both share a deep love for God and the same convictions.  Do you have the same conviction as to what it means to be a disciple? Do you share in the belief of how one is saved? Do you have equal understanding in your purpose in God? Then why should a label prevent you? But, IMHO, dating outside "the movement" is more likely to bring heartache. How can you know if the other person shares your convictions until you've become close? A lot of times, it takes work, effort and opening your heart to someone before you know where their heart is at.  Then the question becomes, I have been dating this person, I love this person, and I am emotionally invested in this relationship, but I now know they don't share the same convictions I do, what do you do then? Do you stand firm, or compromise.  This is the danger you face. NOW, dating within the ICOC doesn't prevent this completely. I've known a lot of disciples who have gone through the heartache of developing a close relationship with someone who was not open with themselves and others, and did not have the same convictions. I've seen marriages in the ICOC that have gone that way also. There are always those, in any group of people, who are not honest, and living a lie.  So, the issue, in my mind boils down to this. Why are we so worried about changing our status, and not worried about bringing God the glory.  Are you single, just waiting to be married, considering your present circumstances as something to be endured until you can change them, looking for a spouse any where you can find one,considering mail order spouse even? Are you married, wishing you had never even met your spouse, enduring life until you can get a "biblical" divorce, or hoping they may even die soon so you can get on with your life?  OK, so that would be the extremes, and most of us fall in the middle there somewhere. The question is this, ARE YOU DOING YOUR BEST FOR GOD? Remember Romans 8: 28-29? God is using your circumstances, whatever they are, to transform you into the image of His son. Are you trying to circumvent that by forcing the issue? Or are you learning how to be your best for Him. What is the purpose of being single? To Glorify God with your life. What is the purpose of marriage? To Glorify God with your life.  Will you be single the rest of your life? Maybe, but is that the purpose of your life, to not be single.  Are you feeling alone and desperate? Do you think if God would just allow you to have that one person, you would feel alive and fulfilled?  I can tell you, some of the loneliest days of my life came while I was married.  If you are looking for anything other than the love of our Father to make you feel fulfilled, you are in for nothing but hurt and pain. Marriage will never bring you happiness, nor will dating. And, if you have found your happiness already, then why is this even an issue? Why don't you have faith enough to believe that God can bring a person into your life right where you are? Why would you have to go looking under rocks to find what God will willingly bring to you, if it is His will? And if it isn't His will, then forcing the issue is a matter of rebelling against His will, and will bring you even more suffering then you imagine your in now.

Look, I'm not trying to be harsh here, but brothers and sisters, you have got to come to grips with the fact that you do not control your life. Any attempts to do so will bring about results that you will regret. Even when you weren't a disciple, any thought you had to controlling your life was an illusion. As Paul clearly points out, you have a master, whether it is the sinful nature, or the Lord, there is something besides you in control.  God's will is going to be done, whether you are a willing part or not. I speak as one who has seen a lot in his time, when it comes to relationships, and has experienced a lot. I've dated, married, divorced and dated again in the ICOC. And every step of the way, up until the divorce, has been a mixture of me trusting God, and also trying to force things to fit into my timing.  I have finally learned to let go, and to be content where I'm at, knowing that God is trying to transform me.  I am in a dating relationship that defies any logic or explanation now. I understand so much more, and know it would not be happening if I hadn't willingly surrendered.  Even now, every time I start to exert my desires on the relationship, things start to sour. Fortunately I have learned enough to see it, and to release the reins, allowing God to stay in control. Then I am amazed out how things resolve and we grow even closer together.  The thing that is most amazing is understanding that God is using her to transform me even more. Will this relationship result in marriage, only God knows, but as long as I understand my happiness and contentment come from God, and not my girlfriend, then it doesn't even matter if there is a marriage. We can just be free to enjoy what God is doing, and enjoy each others close friendship, the rest will be what ever God wills it to be.

There, sorry about getting up on my soapbox, and for rambling.

Your Brother in Christ,

Paul

 Hello Paul,

I do appreciate your knowledge and input. However, I think if younger Christians did research the ICOC they may realize that this might be a cult. I am not saying it is but many people have suggested it to me. I can see where someone may get that impression. On the other note you made about dating: why date outside and know someone convictions until your are close? I feel very strongly that you don't get close to brothers who are disciples, there seems to be this stigma that you can't have a close relaitonship with a brother, its unheard and can be very hurtful when brothers don't want to build a relationship(not necesarily a dating relationship either). I know i am glad i placed this question because i knew people would give me their honest, knowlegeable and the love for God answers that I notice you do. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I don't love God or have a relationship with him, I do. But, I have questions and I am just trying to figure out why my life is so horrible if I don't do everything everyone else in the church

does. I think I am doing really well, I am an emotional person that is for sure.

 Kathy, I just wanted to make a few comments about what you wrote:

1. It is ok for you to ask brothers out. Even though I usually asked the sisters out, I appreciated it when sisters had the forwardness to ask me out.

2. You can be just as lonely (and even more so) in a marriage as you can single.

3. What is most important to you, getting married or serving God whole-heartedly and going to heaven? When being married becomes your focus, it can lead you into all kinds of trouble. I'm not saying you can't have both, but when your focus gets skewed you need to have some long talks with God.

It sounds like you have had deep convictions over the years and tried to do what is right. I trust you will make a godly, righteous decision when it comes to whom you marry.

I would like to share about dating in our worldwide church.  I have been one who has stepped out into the world and visited several other churches and the lack of conviction on purity, living above reproach, the heart of caring if you are causing someone to struggle in their walk with God.....its missing out there....when we intertwine with other church hearts, you can tell by how unspiritual the conversation will be, or overly feeling based, or just easy believism....just as many have stated, Proverbs 4:23 "Guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life". there is so much false advertising out there....please beware and know that God's boundaries are our safety zone for our own lives, individually and collectively.  I am very grateful that I can be connected with other hearts in our church that share the united conviction of the salvation ingredients I call them.  Believe, confess, repent and be baptized...it is at baptism one receives the Holy Spirit, forgiveness of sins and added to God's kingdom....if you speak to other church's members, they do not believe this, at least the churches I have visited and people I have shared my faith with do not believe this....if someone stands firmly that they prayed Jesus into their heart when they were young and have not been baptized, I would share Acts 2:38 and Matthew 28:18 for our purpose....not many believe it is our responsibility to seek and save the lost....

In dating....we must be united in the foundation of our belief system in these areas....if we are to marry, how will we be united in sharing our faith as a couple?

God Bless!

 Stephen,

You are absolutely right! There are alot of sisters in the Philly church that believe that the brothers should ask them out. I will ask brothers out, probably before they ask me out. Do I get frustrated at that, yep sure do, Do I get resentful no way. Because sometimes when you are a single mom, people get intimadated. I have ajob, kids, a home etc. Put God aside, (becasue we all know he comes first) I beleive that people are responsible for their own happiness. Do I have alot of money, no, but, that doesn't mean I can't be creative. When I first came into church God showed me clearly that my part is to bring singles together and  I love it. Am I going through something right now, yeh, have i left the church, no, have i left God, no, But there are alot of people who believe that you have to go to the ICOC to be saved, I don't really beleive that. I know I have stopped reading my Bible, something that I have always enjoyed. After posting this question on this site, I really feel that God is leading me to get back into reading my Bible and make sure i have time to pray. I guess I need to stay true to myself and be ok with me.  Single sisters, ask the brothers out. Have a game night, movie time or just scriptures and dinner. Have fun!

Thanks,

I am very opinionated about different topics and I get soo upset when I hear the leaders read letters about people because the people aren't doing what they think they should do.  That is exactly the problem I had growing in the Catholic Church, we do tell the priest our sins and not God. I know I am just rambling now. But, I like who I am(for the most part) lol... that I need to be confident in myself. I always think everyone else is right and I am wrong. 2008 was a horrible year. I am making 2009 my year. Is that selfish?

Tthats a great topic christina.

I agree with klee about that we have to be united in the foundation of our belief system if we are to marry.

In dating i have learned more and more lately that if something must be changed in this area then it is firstly my attitude towards sisters, not to take them for granted, but to appreciate their faith and their value, to take relationship with them more seriously. Thats my year 2009 :)

aloha again from hawaii. my name is brian. we all have different opinions and convictions about this topic and i have mines also (first entry) but we only can advise someone. we can't make them do something. there are good things that happened on both sides and there are bad things that happened on both sides. so as a church we can't say this is right or wrong but for me i hope that what ever route the person takes. i pray that everything will work out for the benefit of god. so if someone has a different conviction from mines and doesn't take my advice. i just need to love them because thats what god call me to do. no matter what. i have a 22 yr. old son and he fell away when he was 17 yrs. old. yesterday we had a babyshower for him and his girlfriend. do i wish he was married? YES. do i wish he was a disciple? YES but he has his own path in life and i need to love him unconditionally. just like for my brothers and sisters in christ. no matter what they choose. god calls me to love them unconditionally. just like how god loves us. even when we was at our worst in our lives. thank you for your time. mahalo. brian

 Thank you so much for your post. You are so encouraging and I thank God that he led to your heart to share. I too know both sides and each side has very good points. But, each person needs to know that their choice is God's way not the world.

Hi Christina, My name is Shonda. I am a sister from Ca. I have been a disciple for almost 8 years. I want to share a story with you. A few years ago when I was in the midst of what’s wrong with the brothers? and my lack of interaction with them, I decided to go back to my old ways and post an ad on the internet at a singles dating site. I found a guy that I thought was reallly great. Did you notice I had 3 l’s in really? OH YEAH!!! He was an absolute angel. Well, he and I spoke a few times and then we met. Here is where everything started to go haywire.

FIRST, He in reality wanted nothing to do with God. He actually hated God. Second, YOU CAN GUESS WHAT HE ONLY WANTED FROM ME. I DO NOT NEED TO SPELL THAT ONE OUT. Third, we were impure. Now let me clarify something. I did not do what married people do when it is time to make little people BUT the whole situation was impure altogether. I refused to let the relationship go that far, even though it went too far according to our standards as disciples. Oh did I mention that he was an angel from Hades?

Please trust me when I say this. God has your best interest in hand. Prov 3:5-6 Pro 3:5  Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding:

Pro 3:6  In all your ways acknowledge him, And he will direct your paths.  I did not trust God and I wanted to help him out by doing what I thought was best. I poured my heart out to a handful of wonderful sisters who helped me through the whole situation. I Thank God for all of them and I appreciate God for giving them to me.

Now, when I have been feeling lonely, building healthy relationships with the brothers has been a great thing for me.  That does not mean dating them or going out on dates with them. It means having quality time with them. THAT ‘S WHAT’S IMPORTANT!!!!!!! God knows your needs. He hears your heart. Now, I am not going to sit here and say that God has given a wonderful boyfriend and we are getting married in 2 months.  That isn’t the case. I am still single and I want you know that God does not want you to fall in any capacity. He will help you but you cannot be blinded by your own thinking. Dating someone who doesn’t have your convictions about church values should be the first prominent flag right there.

All of us need help with interacting with each other brothers and sisters. It should not just be the brothers asking us out. We can pick up the ball and ask them out also. I hear what you are saying and I guarantee you there are more of us out there but you have to trust God first. Please trust God above anyone else including your heart.  As my sister, regardless of what happens I am going to love you because you are my sister.

Christina,

Sorry if I came across as offensive, I wasn't trying to be.

As far as the cult term, i have no problem with someone telling me I'm in a "cult". What is the definition of a cult?

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.; 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.; 3. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 4. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader (Hmmm... Sounds like a group I read about in the book of Acts.)

Wow, sounds like a good term for followers of Jesus.  I'm proud when the "mainstream" religous world considers us a cult, it means we are doing something right to shake up the "orthodox" religious system. I challenge anybody, in any church, to learn the history of their churches. I think people should know the truth about what they believe, and church history is a part of that.

But, what I was trying to get at is this. A baptized disciple is a member of God's Kingdom, no matter what the name on the church building they worship is. Unfortunately, there are to many "orthodox" churches that don't even teach the truth about what it takes to accept God's gift of grace and salvation.

anyways, enough of that.

As far as developing relationships between brothers and sisters, I feel truly sorry if there is a place where strong friendships between the sexes is discouraged.  I would not like it there. I have always had strong friendships with sisters the whole time I've been a disciple.  I think it is wrong to discourage those relationships. I believe as you look at the writings of Paul, how many women does he send greetings to, a lot. He obviously had close friendships with sisters as well as brothers. Am I going to be as open about things in my life with a sister as with a brother, of course not, but that doesn't mean there can't be an openness and vulnerability in my friendships with the sisters. Here in Missoula, in a very small singles ministry, I have developed some very close friendships with sisters. I have several sisters that I can sit with at a coffee shop for hours just talking about God and life. It's great. Is there any romance in those relationships, absolutely not.  But they are an important part of my life, and I would be much poorer with out them.  They even help a great deal in my relationship with my girlfriend. Do you think another brother is always going to be able to give me the best advice on how to love and serve my girlfriend? Not always. We need input from members of the opposite sex in our relationships, since we often miss the mark on how our girlfriends/boyfriends think and process.  So, I hope there is someone there encourageing friendships.  I know that I would have even considered going steady with someone unless there was already a deep friendship. Of course, having children makes that an even more important thing for me. I was unwilling to allow someone into my life in that way until I new them well enough that I could trust them with my children also, and I wouldn't have known that without developing the friendships first, and really getting to know the sisters that are in my life.  I love my Girlfriend with all my heart, but I would not have allowed myself to feel that unless I new my kids could love and respect her, and that she loved my kids. Of course, in my case it helped that she was their preteen leader before we ever even started dating, so they had their own relationship with her.

Anyways, here I go rambling again.  I'm sorry if I offended you, it was never my attention, please forgive me. I really was just trying to be encouraging to everyone, hoping to help us all remember to seek God first, and to glorify Him, and the rest will take care of itself. (Matt. 6:32-34)

With Love,

Your Brother in Christ,

Paul

Paul,

Absolutely no need to apologize, you did nothing wrong. You have absolutely been so encouraging through this post the whole time and wish you could fly down here and give a talk on the subject. I respect everything you said and agree. To add to your comment about your friendships with women. I add that I personally wouldn't want a brother who still wouldn't continue his friendships with the sister, of course being pure at all times. I would think the brother and sister would make sure each other was secure in their relationship. I guess I am just disappointed in the people who brought me into the church and I feel used because I was in their life and now they are dating and my kids and i have been pushed aside. Not only that, I have had alot of comments my way when I first got baptized that I dont have to worry about making any brothers struggle because I am heavy and that no one would want me because I am a single mom with kids and they want someone pure. So I am over it even though it doesn't seem like it on this site. I am a very positive person and I have decided i am going to make 2009 a good year because 2008 stunk. I even set up a group date in my house and one brother told a sister taht i invited that she should come because anythign that i invite people to ,they will have a good time, so that was a nice compliment.

Thanks for coming on this post. I do appreciate your input and I am thankful to everyone for their insight.

Christina,

I'm very sorry to hear that you have been treated this way.  I am always shocked by how some disciples fail to understand Jesus' command to love one another the way He loved us.  Wow.  And don't ever let anyone tell you you are incapable of making someone struggle.  I felt that way about myself, specially after the pain and rejection of my divorce. No one had to tell me I couldn't make a sister struggle, because I was constantly telling myself that.  Of course, now that I have a girlfriend, who somehow loves me inspite of my weight, I now realize that I must be catious, because I can very easily make her struggle.  I'm shocked someone would say that to you.  I guess it shows we are all still human, and none of us have it all together.

Hey Everyone,

I pray that this does not come across as self-righteous or harsh, but this can be a touchy subject because emotions are involved and they can often cloud our judgment, but that's when we turn to the Word .  And for others, there may be lack of understanding of what God desires from us.  What matters is how God feels about dating (aka going steady). 

First things first, please remember that when we were buried with Christ in baptism we died to our old selves (Romans 6:4).  Our covenant was to live a life pleasing to God, and to no longer live for ourselves.  Nowhere in our covenant with God did we say, "I will no longer follow You because You did not fulfill my desires to find a spouse."  We all counted the costs, and we decided to entrust our lives in His hands. 

Now, naturally, we all have the desire to be in a relationship with the opposite sex, but it doesn't mean that it will end in marriage.  For we all have a spouse from the time of baptism--God :-)  Let us enjoy this relationship first, and He promises to take care of your every need--not your every desire.  But there are so many facets to this subject, like:

1. Have you made a list of all that you desire in a significant other, and made this specific request to God?

- not only does this show your heart to please God, but to also place on paper the qualities that are a most important to you so that you are careful not to compromise these things.  Our Father enjoys when we are specific in our prayers (just a suggestion)

2. Have you asked God if marriage is for you? (It's not for everyone -- Matthew 19:8-12)

3. Are you really ready for a relationship?  God may be working on your spiritual maturity, as well as the brother's spiritual maturity during this time. 

4. If you see a problem within the Body of Christ, are you working with God and leaders to help find a solution?

This isn't just a question of "Why aren't the brothers asking me out on a date?"  But are you actively digging for solutions to strengthen the parts of the Body that are weak? (1 Corinthians 12:7-27) 

5.  Are you encouraging your brothers? (Proverbs 11:25)  Do you inspire them to be greater the way God inspires you to be greater?  This is one of our many roles as sisters.

6. You already have a family of your own:  You have brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, and children in the Body of Christ.  There are the widows, infants, married couples who eagerly desire to go on dates of their own whom you can serve by looking after their children.  There are teenagers who need mentoring.  You see brothers and sisters, although our hearts (and bodies) cry out for a significant other, God fulfills us in so many more ways! :-)

Colossians 3:1-4

"Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.  Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.  For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.  When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." (emphasis mine)

Now, maybe not all of these questions pertain to any one person or situation.  But maybe one does.  This is not a rebuke, but a way to remind you that this problem is greater than you.  When one body part is hurt, encouraged, burdened, weakened, etc. then the whole body suffers.  So when will it end?  Be the one to stand firm and to cling to the Word and not emotions.

I learned about being unequally yolked before I said, "Jesus is Lord", because I learned the hard way.  I was involved in a relationship while studying the Bible, that I eagerly desired to lead into marriage.  The man was very sweet: He cooked for me, picked me up for church every Sunday, and enjoyed the same kind of music as me. 

So what was lacking you ask?  Jesus wasn't Lord of his life.  And although, Jesus hadn't been Lord of my life yet either, I eagerly desired to be baptized.  I asked the women I studied the Bible with, "You say it's obvious to you that his heart isn't with God.  So how do I know if he's a Christian?  How can I tell?"  They replied, "Watch his life and doctrine.  If he lives by the Word, then he's a Christian." 

Sounded simple enough.  So I watched him.  Paid close attention.  He cursed, he went into fits of rage, was easily angered, and he didn't respect my convictions to remain pure.  It was like I was seeing a totally different person.  God opened my eyes.  And my heart slowly began to pull away from him.  I had tried numerous times to break it off with him, but I was weak and not relying on God for strength.  Finally, I looked to God for the strength to break up with him, and I DID!! :-D  Yay!!  Or else I would've never really surrendered to God.

But I tell you the truth, I was miserable in that life in comparison to now.  It is God who fulfills me, and not a man (Ephesians 1:23).  My cousin fell into that trap and married an unbeliever.  You wouldn't believe how many things they cannot see eye-to-eye on because he is not a man of God (finances, how to discipline their children, quality time together, etc.)

So because of what God says in His Word and from experience, date a man who will not be a stumbling block to your relationship with God.  God will reward you greatly when you overcome such temptations.  And even though I have made the decision not to date an unbeliever, the temptation still exists.  When temptation comes, I turn to these Scriptures:

1 John 5:3-4  God desires to protect us, not to place a burden on us.

Ezra 9-10 

2 Corinthians 6:1-7:1

1 Kings 11:1-8

Proverbs 24:1-5

Genesis 24:1-4

Genesis 28:1-9

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

I tell you these things because I love you, Brothers and Sisters.  Get into deep conversations with someone you have an interest in, whether inside or outside of the church.  Get many advisers (spiritual brothers and sisters-marrieds or singles) to search out his/her heart before your emotions cloud your convictions.  For even members of the church can still be spiritually weak.  Hope this helps . 

Your Sister in Christ,

Clarissa

 Thank you Clarissa,

Everything you said is what I have done or thought or questioned. I would like to make it clear, I posted this question not because I am bitter but to get the lines of communication and to get input from older disciples and/or disciples of all ages, no matter what the respnonse. I think so far it has been very productive, I am as are other people on this site very aware of the scriptures, we love God, there is no denying that, this is open forum to really discuss a touchy subject that needs to be addressed and hopefully out of it each one of us can bring something back to our church/and or region. Because I doubt I am the only one thinking this. But, because of Paul and others I have decided that I can make a difference and my attitude towards myself will come out and may reach other people. I have to be secure in myself otherwise I can not make a difference.....Regards, Christina

Hey Christina,

It wasn't anything towards you specifically.  It was just my heart on paper about dating and how God has helped me to develop personal convictions about this subject.  I simply shared what God has taught me and if it helps anyone, then AMEN .  And it's a serious subject because I've had some personal friends leave God for a nonbeliever just because they wanted their "Prince Charming".  So it's definitely something I felt I needed to share for those who may know and for those who may not know.  It's always good to be reminded--we all forget.  Love you, Chica

PS...I highly recommend this book titled, Boundaries in Dating by Dr. Henry Cloud & Dr. John Townsend.  It has helped me alot.

YSIC,

Clarissa

 There is a difference between dating in the world and in the church. Though, I have not dated outside the church, just my interaction on a friendly basis say with men I knew from high school or friends, there is a difference even if the men outside church respect which all of them do, I do get a sense of defference. That something is missing. Someone else mentioned that book. I should probably get it. They said it was a really good book. Also, there is a book Emotional Purity, also a very good book.  It should be read by married and singles alsike. Thanks for posting.

chrisitna

I think if it were a problem Paul or Stephen would direct it in the rigt way. As far as you receiving an email. We should all have received the email or me since I posted first. Sometimes leaders who have been leaders for a long time can have a control type attitude, they don't want anyone to rock the boat or talk about things they want to control. I have all confidence that Stephen and Paul would do something or say something even privatley to someone if they are getting out of hand and the administrators already should see that because people already have stood up for those who were on the thin line. Plus, each topic is listed and if anyone gets offended they should find another topic of interest.

Sister In Christ

Christina

Hi everyone

There are a lot of posts in this topic.  I don't have time to read them all so please forgive me if I say something that has already been said.

The question of dating outside the church has been asked since Henry Kriete wrote his letter.  But I have always believed that it is a softer way of asking the bigger question:

No one believes its OK to be unequally-yoked with a non-believer.  So therefore...

"Is it alright to date outside the church?"

is really just a softer way to ask...

"Are there Disciples outside our church?"

As someone previously said, yes this is a question that deserves it's own topic.

However in the area of dating, here is my opinion.  Usually when someone says "outside the church" they are refering to churches that are part of the Evangelical Movement (Calvary Chapel for example).  Having been a member of these types of churches for a long time prior to my membership with the ICOC, I must say that I am very unimpressed with their standards regarding dating and purity.  The few people I have met in these churches that have impressed me have been in the church's leadership, not the general population.  General members of these churches live double lives and justify it any way they can.  Here are a few examples of justifications:

1.  They practice everything up to, but not including actual sex.

2.  They pray and ask God for forgiveness everytime they sin

3.  They say, "We're going to get married anyway."

4.  They say, "No one's perfect"

5.  They say, "It's between me and God"

In my opinion even if they were true disciples of Christ I could not recommend that anyone would subject themselves to this kind of practice.  It's been my observation that Pastors in these churches are too afraid to address these issues, thinking that their congregation would not be willing to be open about their sin.  I remember being part of one such church where the pastor said that "if we hold the people to these standards then they would likely leave the church, and then we would loose our ability to influence them."  However, for as long as I was a member of that church I don't remember influencing anyone to live a Godly life.

But if you must consider dating someone from this type of church, make sure you hold them to the same standard you would to someone in our church.  There really is no other way to say it.  In our family of churches, brothers and sisters are held closer to God's standard.

Besides, in our family of churches a "date" is something completely different than anyone outside our family of churches would expect.  When I left the ICOC I remember asking a girl on a date, and she thought I was asking her to be my girlfriend.

 Hello,

Thanks for your response. There is alot of topics that could be taken from this one question. The fact it was said several the scripture verse about be "unequally yoked" leads me to believe that our church"ICOC" is the only church that a person can be saved in. I don't think that is totally true. Perfect example all the questions you asked are the reasons you don't go to other churches are the same things that happen in our church. There are alot of people that live double lives, they cheat on their spouse, they lust for others, the talk to the opposite sex passed 10pm. People's response to this that I hear, is "We are sinnners" yeh we are but that does't give us the right to do whatver we want. thanks for your post..

Really?  That hasn't been my experience in our family of churches.  I've either been a member of or had strong ties with the churches is Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Cruces, Albuquerque, El Paso, and Las Vegas.  So far I have not seen anything that remotely resembles the loose purity standards that I've experienced in Evangelical Churches.  Every time I have seen something like this in our churches it's always been dealt with.  If the person refuses to repent they are asked to leave the fellowship in accordance with the scriptures (Matthew 18).  So I can't say I agree with you that our church is just as bad as the rest.

Before anyone jumps on my case, I am NOT saying we are holier than any other church, or even that our closer adherance to the standard means that we are saved and they are not.  I am simply saying that it is safer to date inside a church that upholds Gods standard of purity, whether it be our church or not.

And by the way, I never said that I think talking to someone past 10pm is a sin,  Thats getting too legalistic

Brian,

I agree wholeheartedly with what your are saying.  Besides the doctrinal issues on salvation, the thing that makes the ICOC stand out is that sin is dealth with, and people truly change.  If someone is living a double life here, they won't last very long before either getting called to repentance, or just leaving because of how uncomfortable they feel.  Having also been in the evangelical movement, the Lutheran Church, the Foursquare church, etc, I agree that sin is not even talked about, let alone dealt with.  It may be preached about from the pulpit, but without any accountability or call to be open, it just goes over most peoples heads.  While I have seen sin in the church, in dating relationships, the sin I've seen has been dealt with in a biblical way.  Also, with the openness and commitment to each other, we should be able to help each other maintain that standard of purity in our dating lives that other churches only hear about on an occasional Sunday, or discuss how terrible it is when someone prominent falls.  It's like, in our singles ministry, I know there are brothers that are very spiritually mature, and can be trusted with far more than others, and some who really need much more accountability. There are brothers who can ride alone somewhere in a car with a sister, and not struggle, and there are those who can't. We can't lump everyone into the same cookie cutter mold. I think within our family of churches, we need to remember Romans 14 much more, and live it more, instead of condemning each other in our legalism.  Heres a shocker, my girlfriend and I actually will go to lunch, just us at a restaurant! Of course, that leaves a large group of chaparones with the other people in the restaurant.  What I won't do is enter her apartment, or allow her in mine alone, sit in the car alone, things like that.  Oh, and yes, I have talked with her after 10 p.m.  Have we been in sin, of course not. Have we pushed the boundaries, no. But then, God has brought me through a lot, and matured my faith a great deal, where as there are brothers I would strongly caution against such things, because of knowing how they would struggle.  Anyways, to make a long point short (oops, to late) We as leaders, and future leaders, need to learn how to know and understand each other, and how to call each other higher in our dating lives, without falling into the practice of "one size fits all" dating, which causes superficial and even unhealthy opposite sex relationships.  I have seen to many marriages fall apart because the couple weren't allowed to truly get to know each other, and develop a deep friendship before they got married.  It is really sad to see, but one of the problems I've seen in my 21 years as a disciple.

YBIC

Paul

Hello Paul and Brian,

I wasn't disagreeing with you Brian I was just commenting on some the questions you posted. I know you didn't say about talking to someone past 10pm. I put that in there myself. Paul, I wholeheartely agree with you but in the church I attend there is different opinoins about relationships with men and women and that is what I have been hurt in the past. I do appreciate both of you for you insight into this deep question.

SIC,

Christina

A young disciple who has been a disciple one year, said, "God made us a lot of promises, but my purpose is supposed to be my relationship with God. God did not say to me if that if I came into the kingdom, I would be married and have kids.

"One brother and a church leader's  talk made me realize that too often I am looking at things from a worldly point of view."Hey, I'm an older single woman! My value in God's eyes is in my relationship with him and how I serve him."

"It is OK to be single in the kingdom of God," she announced at the beginning of the Friday night devotional. But she knew from what she had learned from her single brothers and sisters that sometimes they are made.

Older sisters in particular are more accustomed to hearing statements that make them feel like second-class citizens in the kingdom of God.

Some of us brought into the light what several older single sisters have experienced in the kingdom: the well­meaning yet hurtful comments about their marital status. There are the remarks made in the fellowship and even from the pulpit, for example, about engaged couples "fortunate" enough to have "graduated" from the singles ministry; or about how a sister must have "sinned in some way to still be single after so long"; or about how if a sister had not dated after a while in the kingdom, she is "weird."

Such comments serve to communicate one thing: if you're an older woman, and you're not married, then you are not valued. This is neither true nor biblical.

Older single brothers don't seem to struggle as much with the marriage issue. In contrast to the sisters, they are in "the driver's seat." They are free to pick a mate when they are ready.

Marriage is not a cure-all to the challenges singles face. "If you struggle with lust before you marry, for example, you will struggle with it after your marriage." The same goes for singles who struggle with being late to events, or with being financially undisciplined. 

"Marriage is not the solution to sin".

Despite the diversity of opinion, especially this post. I know a sister who is in the process of finalizinga divorce.  Instead she is going to concentrate on seeking God first in her life. (Matthew 6:25-33)

I have learned that I really  have  to take the time and develop a quality friendship with some brothers through worshipping together and serving together and shared experiences.   My nature is that I get insecure for whom I with or to be myself when I around. When some singles are involve romantically ,the best  advise is "Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires.".Song of Songs 2:7.

Instead of being critical of brothers for not asking her out . Some of us started looking at some things in our own character to change. And since the devotional, we have made more of an effort to encourage brothers/sisters by asking them out. Some brothers have fear of committment,don't want the sisters complain alot,picky as cottons,or are not  initiators enough. The solutions are the sisters are the "encouragers and helpers",but don't expect in relationships. Go out with double ,triple,or group dates in different sectors,regions,or even if you visited in other town ,catch your endeavor by asking the sisters and then the brothers to go out for your exploration.  Get to know them . God has interesting stories  you know.

Ruth is inspired my faith that her love ,faith and humility. She was not looking for a husband when she went into Boaz's field.  But he noticed  her. It was her spiritual characteristics that made her attractive .

Brothers and sisters, we can go beyond the surface and focus on the spiritual. I m ok that I m still single and that's why I went  to do something like going on a missionary trips,help and decorate for the couples' weddings, etc. "I don't make emotional decisions about a man". Yes, I am emotional,but to God. I pour my heart to him .He come into my life and let He take control. Let's keep our prayers about it. Yes,I do need to be in delight in Lord and he will give me the desires of my heart. Psalm 37:4 Basically, I did ask  God to send me a best friend . He and I can lead and serve together in the ministry. Dating and Marriage is not about for each other. It is to honor God.  I can encourage,love,help,inspire him and he can lead,admonish,encourage,and complete me .As 15 years as a disciple ,I need to surrender Him and His will which is not easy for me sometimes.

"Boaz as a spiritual ideal.We encouraged the sisters to look for a brother who wants to protect their faith, protect them in a physical sense and protect their purity included myself."

Marita,

All you said is so true.  I have been trying to mostly say the same things, but sometimes I get a little long winded and my message gets tripped up in all the words.  What were we created for? To love God. What is our life to be used for? To glorify God.  All else is nothing in comparison to knowing God and his unserpasing Glory! What is the purpose of our friendships? To bring glory to God. What is the purpose of or dating relationships? To bring glory to God! What is the purpose of our marriages? To bring glory to God! If that is not the focus, then what are we seeking first, God's kingdom, or our needs?  He knows your needs, He gave them to you! But if you try to circumvent God's plan, you are setting yourself up for failure. Does God promise to give you a spouse? No! Does God promise to give you a happy and prosperous life in this wordl? Ask our brothers and sisters in areas where beinga disciple can still be a death sentence. What does God promise you? If you seek Him with everything, that He will provide you peace, joy, love, and the chance to be transformed into the likeness of Jesus.  Do you think that if you live your life single, and die unmarried, you've been cursed?  No, the curse is in not being able to be content in the circumstances God has placed you in.  Of course it will take pain to bring about what God plans in each of us. We seem to only be able to learn through pain and failure at times.  So, instead of asking, Why don't I have a relationship/marriage? Ask, what are you trying to do in my life, Father? What do I need to learn, so that I become more like Jesus through this. Most importantly, ask, and expect an answer to this question - Father, show me how this situation can be used to Glorify Yor name?

Love you all,

YBIC

Paul

Paul,

Yes,temptation is not a sin but it's victory.

Hello All,

Wow - there is a lot on here - I am replying to an older post from Kathy and Christina and I realize now that it may be old news...

To Kathy and Christina - I certainly feel for you.  I think I have experienced or felt most of what you mentioned - not going on dates, feeling like brothers don't want to even build friendships (not true), feeling more encouraged by men outside the church than brothers inside the church (deception, most definitely).  I have seen most of my single friends get married and have felt friendships with brothers change after they get married.  However, I cannot let myself feel insecure over that because security needs to come from God.  I know, I know - cliche - it's so easy to say that, but it's really true and I think it is what we as women really struggle with - finding security in men or how we are treated by them v/s security in God. 

I have made efforts to email brothers and the response back or lack of response was not what I expected.  At first I felt like an idiot for putting myself out there - like I "made the first move" and they probably think I am desperate - but then I think Who cares if they respond or not - my motivation for emailing them was (or should have been) to be encouraging, not to get attention back.  And I shouldn't base how I feel about myself on their response.

There was a spell that was about a year or so since I had been on a date.  It had been a while for my roommates as well so we said "Let's just find some brothers and encourage them".  We did and had a Great time - it was like "bringin' it back old school". 

The biggest thing I miss about "pre-Letter" days is how brothers and sisters would go on dates to just encourage the other person - it was about encouring the other person and not about what he/she could get from the date.  I pray for the singles' ministry to get back to that - just encouraging one another.

I think that we as sisters have to really love our brothers where they are and try not to have an attitude towards them.  They are flawed just as we are flawed.  I have talked to some of my brother-friends and they have felt that sisters say 'no' all the time to dates because the brother is not who they want to go out with.  Not easy on the brother's part - to have to face rejection by your sister in Christ.  So we as sisters are not perfect by any means.

And I have to remind myself that God is bigger than everything.  When I start to feel like there is a man in the world that is my soul-mate and there is nobody in this church (not true) I have to think about Eve and how she was deceived and how she thought that God was holding out on her.  And I have to remind myself that God did not forget about me...even though I am going to wedding after wedding...and standing up in wedding after wedding (I have been in at least 11)...and being put on display for every boquet toss at every wedding...and there are not brothers on the horizon...and I feel like my married friends forgot about me...and my younger brother and sister are married with babies...that's when I have to say "God - it's just you and me man..." 

As far as going on dates outside the church - I guess it depends on what that means - hanging out with friends or pursuing a dating/romantic relationship?  I have felt guilty because I have some guy friends that I have known for years that aren't disciples - I just try to be wise - don't be alone with them, no "romantic" dates, etc. - and they know where I stand spiritually - so I don't feel bad about being their friend.  For me, dating romantically outside the church is a no-no because Satan knows me and tried to take me out before by a man who wasn't a disciple...I remember that too - how strongly I felt at the time and how I felt completely opposite when I surrendered it to God - it was like a light switch - and it is scary knowing how much of a light switch it felt like.  It's a good reminder to me how deceiving my emotions can be...because they are so strong...but that's me - I had to get sober with myself and see my weaknesses...other people may not have those weaknesses...

So I'm just working on myself - getting deeper with God, my health, my hobbies, rediscovering things I really love to do, etc.  And I totally do not have it all together.  I also get embarassingly open with sisters I know and trust.  I have a friend that was single for 17 years before she got married - I trust what she says - because she was there and went through a lot more than I have been through.  It's easier to hear from her "Just trust God - he loves you - he has a plan for you - just let Him be enough for now" than hearing it from someone who was only single for a few years after getting baptized...  :)  Some of her advice was to go back to the basics - just serve and get involved - God's got the rest - and this is so true and I did this before and I was So at peace.  She used to hang out with families a lot too - which is so great to do.  So it's just bringing it back to the basics and letting go of control...completely...

So you are beautiful wonderful sisters - thanks for sharing and being open.  Hope I was at least a tiny bit encouraging.

-Deanna

Christina,

I will try to limit my answer to your question and not to the entire replays, since the topic lost its focus.

The casual dating in the church is case by case, I see it here were we have 3 churches in the area and is very different, one church is in a different country, so that changes aspects of dating due to the cultural influence.

Over all I think dating needs to be a crucial part of growth for singles ministries. I can do a lot more to encourage the sisters and is part of my personal goals.

If you date some one who is not part of The ICOC, there is going to be a possibility that you don’t have the same convictions about something that is important in your life…

If that is not the case, then either he should become a member of the ICOC or you a member of the organization he is part of; to solve the dilemma.

I know few brothers and sisters that are married now and the source were websites. For me websites are not personal but I do like them to meet people and build friendships, not for dating.

YBIC

Jorge

Accountability for Our Words
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 12:35-37

http://www.dtspace.net/about_us.php

I totally agree!!

P.S.  Jorge!!  Hows it going?  Long time, no see!!

Hello!

Thanks for all the replies: I agree, I do think that someone has different convictions if they are outside of the ICOC. I have decided that I will make 2009 a great year! I do think brothers need to start dating more. I do encourage the brothers. So I decided I am getting back into what I used to do. And, that is to make group dates for my friends. I am also planning a huge dating game/dance for the singles and inviting 5 surrounding churches (ICOC). I have also decided to get gastric by surg in March. I have two kids and I need to be healthy and have fun! I also am getting back into reading my Bible and taking time for God and me.

I also have to realize that I need to move on from different situations that happened in the past. NOt everyone has the same maturity level and sometimes it just doesn't help to go to the elders! Not everything should. Because the person or people just don't get it.

This sounds great Christina!!!! Good luck with all of the plans you have listed here. You have also encouraged me to    start thinking about how I can and should encourage the brothers as well. Take care.

 know few brothers and sisters that are married now and the source were websites. For me websites are not personal but I do like them to meet people and build friendships, not for dating.

YBIC

Jorge

aloha. yes jorge is right but let god control everything because we don't know gods plans for us because that was my thought also when i started to go on christian connection but god is so powerful and thats my conviction. mahalo. brian

This is an issue I've wrestled alot with during my 14 years as a disciple.  I've read alot of the other posts, and my experiences echo much of what was said.  I did look outside the church, and nothing I found was beneficial to my walk with God.  During the past year, I realized that my desire to date outside the church was motivated by a lack of trust in God's plan for my future and a belief that I needed to take control and make something happen. 

 Something Kathy said in her post caught my attention "when there was a famine in Israel - Naomi's family moved to Moab. Her sons married Moabite women because there were no Israelite women to choose from."  I don't want to offend, but I think it's important to take into account the rest of the story.  In Deuteronomy 23:3-6, the Israelites were commanded to have nothing to do with Moab.  In Moab, Naomi lost all the male members of her family (Ruth 1:3,5) and in verse 6 she prepares to return to Bethlehem because she heard "that the Lord had come to the aid of his people".  When Naomi returns from Moab, she is so changed by her experiences that the women don't recognize her at first and she changes her name to reflect her bitter circumatances(Ruth 1:19-20).  Ruth really became a blessing to Naomi after she left Moab, gave up her people and her god (Ruth 1:16).  The two women were saved (at that time two women alone were in real danger of starving)  after they returned to God's people.  The point of Naomi's story/the book of Ruth isn't to take off when things get tough.  Can God still move, yes but it took Ruth a lot of work to get back the ground Naomi's family lost when they left. 

Repenting of my attitudes has taken hard work and dealing with some heart issues.  My conviction is to only date (casually or steady) disciples and to trust that God will bring about those opportunities in his perfect timing.  God is the only relationship I am focusing on. 

Kudos to you, Deanna.  You hit the nail on the head!  I am so with you, and even though our circumstances are different, I can relate to you 110% on everything you just shared.  Especially the "God- it's just you and me, man!" sentiment.  There is so much I have to get on straight, and reading your post today just got me an inch closer.  It's really all about faith, and living a life that pleases God, standing firm and remembering what our secret weapon is against the enemy...FAITH.  He hates it--it completely repels him, and if he can shake us up enough to make us faithless, he starts winning little battles.  Ultimately, we win the war, but our lack of faith may just ensure we cross that finish line in our single state.  I'd love to finish married.  I'm workin' on the faith part...not being blown and tossed by doubt, but really believing with all my heart, soul and strength that God has a perfect plan for my life.  Anyway, I didn't have time to read this entire post, but scanned through it.  Lots of good nuggets of wisdom here--your post just happened to catch my eye.  By the way, I got restored about 6 months ago and have not been on any dates, but my situation is pretty weird.  If you're ever really bored, I'll tell you all about it, or you can get the cliff notes on my dtspace page. ~Maya

Hello Everyone,

It is with great sadness that I tell you my 8 year old Stephen Christopher died today. He was in a sledding accident while with  his father.  Please pray for my daughter Grace as we deal with just a great loss.

Christina,

I am so very sorry to hear that. I will pray for you and your family. I wish there was more I could do.

Your Brother in Christ,

Paul

I didn't read all the posts.... actually I only read the first few but this is a topic I've had dialogue about before.  “Casual” dating is soooooooooooo unappealing to me to say the least. I think its just weird way to find a mate and could lead to a lot of confusion and unnecessary hurt like Beatrice was saying. Relationships have a natural flow to them and I think we’d do well to pay attention to that. I advocate hang-outs with friends/common interest groups and allow God to do the rest. In such settings affections arise that can be prayed about and pursed in step with the Holy Spirit. If your circle has a limited radius then just make it bigger, open your mind and your circle. In my opinion, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with hang-outs with or even dating (steady dating) anyone that is a Christian, whether they're a part of your congregation or not.  If they're living as a Christian then the relationship will glorify God and advance the gospel.  I understand that some would disagree with this; actually an elder preached a sermon threatening that dating anyone outside of the ICOC would result in being disfellowshiped.  Obviously I disagree and feel that such a notion is un-biblical.  The thing to keep in mind is that one must be objective about whether or not the person your interested in is living as a Christian because, let's face it, our own perception can be clouded by less than pure motives at times.  As far as dating sites are concerned, I personally don't think it’s a good idea but that's only because when it comes to relationships, I prefer the old fashion way and you can’t always trust what’s presented on those sites no matter who makes it, Christians struggle, and every church has its tares.

I hope this could help you fellow brothers and sisters... =)

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4 March 2009

I just came across this interesting article last night as I check how our churches internationally are doing this year. I love browsing many churches’ website and read their posts and thoughts especially by their leaders. Actually, I’m just fired up to see how our family of churches in the ICoC are doing when it comes to the preparations for the upcoming International Campus Ministry Conference (ICMC) 2009. Great news, Manila would be participating in the event come June as I also receive bits of information via e-mail from the MMCC campus coordinators. But this is not my topic to share (maybe I can discuss more about this next time). I just want to share to you the article entitled “Why Dating Matters” or, if I would paraphrase it, “Why is It Important for Disciples to Go on Dates”.

Here are some valuable points (excerpts) I really appreciate:

1) We need to INSPIRE one another.

“Dating is an inspiring way by which we develop and learn how to engage, connect, share our hearts, and encourage each other.”

2) We need to BUILD UP and PROTECT one another.

“After days and weeks of being worn down by disapproval at work or from the social environment we work/live in, be it overt or subtle, we legitimately need building up. God knows that encouraging acceptance and approval is vital to our assurance that he loves us. It is essential that we provide this for each other in the context of Christian dating. Otherwise, we leave our brothers and sisters vulnerable when they receive more compliments, praise and reassurance from neighbors and co-workers who are not disciples, ultimately leading them astray from their first love for God.”

3) We need to LOVE one another.

“Thirdly, we must be grateful. Grateful that someone asked us out. Grateful that someone said "Yes!" (or at least "OK"). Grateful that we can relax and not worry what might be expected for you to do. Grateful we don't have to be guarded about what someone might try or what ulterior motive they may have. Grateful we can be ourselves. Grateful we can learn to be at ease. Grateful that we don't have to spend extravagantly in order to give personally. Grateful that having a good time doesn't have to then be saddled with expectations of immediate steady dating. Grateful that the simple privilege of Christian dating is a great opportunity to share our faith at work on Monday mornings about what we did and who we enjoyed spending time with last weekend. Grateful that we can supplant our fears and insecurities with serving and loving.”

As I read the article, I realized that we are so blessed as disciples that we have this opportunity to encourage one another with pure motives and high regard for each other (because we are a family, right?). Before I got steady dating with Jackie, I really enjoy going on dates with our sisters in Metro Manila. As I look back on those numerous fun times, prayer times, picnics, lunch dates, dinner dates, blind dates, jogging dates, double dates, group dates, etc I am so happy because many of those disciples became close friends of mine even up to this time that I am already here in Singapore. I remember the funny decision I made when I started seriously considering a sister, a “special sister” or “SS” as it is known in Manila (“favorite sister” or “FS” here in Singapore) that I would only go on a date if a sister would ask me (haha). I was so stubborn, right? But I was humbled by God and thereafter I started asking sisters in our church to go out on dates for mutual encouragement. And for me, it was an awesome time to get to know other disciples and to deeply know how the opposite gender thinks and reacts. Christian dating is an extended fellowship with the goal of leading each other even more closer to God and building closer relationships.

As one of the steady dating Filipino disciples here in Central Christian Church, I do encourage all of us to give importance and deeper meaning about going on dates. I wrote about this topic not because I want you guys to go on a double or group date with me and my girlfriend (although that would be great!), but for us to have a change in attitude. Let’s make our time with our fellow brothers and sisters special. I hope that reading through this short essay would help us to have renewed thinking about going on dates or why dating matters. Below is the article which I got from Bay Area Christian Church in the United States. Enjoy!

In Him,

Jan Louie

WHY DATING MATTERS

None of us have completely escaped the world's influence on our thinking. We are inundated daily by advertising and entertainment that tell us what we should buy, wear, or drive, how we should perform or think a certain way. We are constantly bombarded with images of how we should look and act, and of what others find attractive. If we were immune to such influences, there would be no need for scripture to admonish us "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind" (Romans 12:2). Even the slightest awareness of today's popular culture and society should convince us that relationships between men and women desperately need help. As in every other area of our life, God calls us to transform our thinking about dating --- to think and act spiritually. To live out his plan in this arena is yet one more way to seek his kingdom first, and he promises in return to give us all we need (Matthew  6:33).

1.  It Matters in Changing our Attitude and Mindset Regarding Relationships.

First and foremost, our thinking must be transformed to that of a servant. "...just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life..."(Matt. 20:28). Our attitude in approaching dating must be radically transformed from a self-focused vehicle of ego-gratification to an opportunity to serve others. A servant takes no thought for his own reputation, plans or feelings but is focused on serving others first (Luke 17:7-9). To think of dating in this context requires prayer and preparation to counteract the years of worldly programming we've absorbed. Christian dating must not rely on attraction, romance or even compatibility, although those features may grow over time. It is based on treating others the way we want to be treated. "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you..." (Matthew 7:12). All of us appreciate another showing genuine interest in our thoughts, values, hopes and plans. Taking on the mindset of a servant enables us to abandon the self-focus that gives rise to so much insecurity, nervousness and fear --- those memories of past dates that threaten to sabotage our future.

We cannot grow in each of the qualities mentioned in the scripture above unless we’re engaged in genuine, intimate relationships.  Most often what helps us grow is learning from the strengths, differences and examples of others.

2. It Matters in Developing Depth and Encouraging Emotional Awareness!

"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing." (1 Thessalonians 5:11)

"See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." (Hebrews 3:12-14)

Dating is an inspiring way by which we develop and learn how to engage, connect, share our hearts, and encourage each other. Most sins that enslave us, whether sexual sins, such as impurity and immorality, or greed and selfish ambition come from deeper emotional needs that go unmet – unmet by a intimate relationship with God, and unmet by a lack of engaging, spiritual friendships with peers and those of the opposite gender.  It is when we’re actively dating that we’re actively growing in our emotional awareness, depth and ultimately in our love, as we engage in conversations that sharpen and make us aware of our own hearts as well as caring about the interests of others. (Philippians 2:1-4)  Dating gives us the opportunity to be vulnerable about dreams, goals, our hearts and the lessons we're learning - going through life challenges together while celebrating victories and milestones with friends.

In the back of our minds, we can feel less because neither our bodies, our cars nor our incomes meet standards of those deceiving bill-boards and commercials. Holding to our belief in God and his inerrant scriptures tears us down in the eyes of a humanistic society. We can feel Satan's relentless accusations each time we fail. Don't the scriptures ring true that command us to "build each other up"? "But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit." (Jude 1:20). After days and weeks of being worn down by disapproval at work or from the social environment we work/live in, be it overt or subtle, we legitimately need building up. God knows that encouraging acceptance and approval is vital to our assurance that he loves us. It is essential that we provide this for each other in the context of Christian dating. Otherwise, we leave our brothers and sisters vulnerable when they receive more compliments, praise and reassurance from neighbors and co-workers who are not disciples, ultimately leading them astray from their first love for God.

3.  It Matters in Inspiring an Attitude of Gratitude for God and Friendships.

Thirdly, we must be grateful. Grateful that someone asked us out. Grateful that someone said "Yes!" (or at least "OK"). Grateful that we can relax and not worry what might be expected for you to do. Grateful we don't have to be guarded about what someone might try or what ulterior motive they may have. Grateful we can be ourselves. Grateful we can learn to be at ease. Grateful that we don't have to spend extravagantly in order to give personally. Grateful that having a good time doesn't have to then be saddled with expectations of immediate steady dating. Grateful that the simple privilege of Christian dating is a great opportunity to share our faith at work on Monday mornings about what we did and who we enjoyed spending time with last weekend. Grateful that we can supplant our fears and insecurities with serving and loving.

If we transform our minds regarding Christian dating, we will find that instead of just an "optional activity" that we may not feel like affording, it is intended as an opportunity and privilege to grow in the way God intended for us grow to be more like Jesus:

"For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:5-8)

Source:

Bay Area Christian Church, ICoC. (2009). Why Dating Matters. Retrieved 3 March 2009, from http://www.bacc.cc/CMS/asset.html?id=272331&type=article.

The bible do not make rules on dating!!! We are equally yoked as christians and should not have any barriers with being married. We have to see what the word says about marriage. The bible says it's not good for a man to be alone, a man that finds a wife finds a good thing, a virtous woman has a husband that knows she is more precious than rubies and children that consider her blessed. The church leaders need to get out of the way playing match maker and allow people to date in the church (Date to marry not fellowship every saturday). We are free to make mistakes and form natural relationships. The bible does discourage dating outside the church but in corintains it does state a woman can be married to a nonbeliver and that marriage can sanctify the nonbeliever. We need to stick to scriptures and speak where the bible speak and be silent where the bible is silent. We can not read between the lines and create man made rules. This is why people are tempted to date outside the church. Brothers need to seek wifes and not be comfortable with going on dates every saturday for 5,10,15 years.

Does dating a lost person help get that person saved? (They think if you love them as a lost person then why change) No. Does having kids with a lost person help your kids get saved? No (they think if your mate doesn't go to church then why should they go). Does spending time with a lost person more than anybody else help you be closer to God? No (It will probably wear you down to their level). Does have a lost mate help your marriage? No (They will refuse to get spiritual counseling or guidance, or to take advice). If you date or marry a lost person the chances your life will improve is next to nothing. Why make it harder on you?

Hey there! The short and sweet thought. I've been a disciple for almost 20 yrs now. Been single and married before I was disciple. Been single and then married to a disciple for almost 10 years. Went through a divorce before I was a disciple and then with a disciple. So now I am single again. Do I struggle with being lonely!? Ohhhh so very much! However my own personal decision has come to this: My life is NO MORE soley focused on "here and now"  but instead on my longing to be with my Father in heaven and pleasing him. Date a person who is not a disciple? Been there, done that. I won't be doing that again- it was like oil and water- they did'nt mix. Ultimately God is in control- and when I struggle to date someone who is not a disciple now all I need to do is read Genesis for examples of good and bad marriages. Those who married in the faith and those who did not. With that in mind I rather be single than experience some of their hardships. Finally I close with this. We limit God waaaaayyy too much. There is only ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism- I agree- ONE true church - but I believe with all my heart that there are others out there just as saved as I am who do not have an "ICOC" stamp on them. They may be part of a denomination but they do not FOLLOW that denomination. Somehow by God's grace they have it on straight. 

Your brother in Christ,

Jason Thompson- Atlanta, GA.

Thank you, Jason, for sharing about your life and thoughts. Very encouraging to hear what you have gone
through and still faithful ))


I also wanted to suggest who are in "danger" to fall in love maybe because of loneliness
or because you are desperate... to avoid going out with non-christians or who are not in the same faith.
We are more vulnerable when we feel lonely or desperate. Its like if you are an alcoholic, you should not go to bars,
around alcohol.

And i don't think we need give people a pressure that they should find a mate. Dating is not about finding a mate...
its more about fun, good experience where we can learn about eachother and learn to work through issues. If there
is gonna be something more, its good. But not every date leads to that. I encourage you to go out with anyone who
wants (i mean in church). So when the right one comes you could recognise that :))
Ask some couples how did they met and get together. You get so many answers like this... he/she was the last one
i was thinking i would have something together. Think about this.

I understand your pain and frustation, and I admire your honesty, however:

1. You admit that you are picky.

-This MAY be part of the problem

2. You say that you are a catch.

-How humble! Not. this may also be part of the problem

3. "It's frustrating that the brothers are either too afraid or self-involved to even build friendships with sisters..."

-this may or may not be completely true (maybe some brothers are, maye you seem haughty to some others)

My suggestion, try to bridge the gap by talking with the brothers about your concerns. I dated outside the church twice and it caused me more problems than joy. Sister, I don't want you to experience anything even SIMILAR.

I love you (yes I do because you are my sister) and I want you to marry a disciple of Christ also, so I'll pray with you about this situation. Feel free to contact me personally if you have any questions or concerns about my post. Thanks.

Brotherly,

DeShon

Execellent post, sister!

 "Date to marry not fellowship every saturday." ...need to seek marriage and not be comfortable with going on dates every saturday for 5,10,15 years."

WoW! Excellent comments. I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shalom bros and sis,

      i want to respond in this forum...i was a counted out before,,to be honest i was counted out because i lost hope that i will find half of my heart in the kingdom..and a lot of discouragements and hurts i received from the brothers,,who verbally told me that they don't like me, something like that,but anyways,, i stepped out because i had a relationship outside(comforted outside)and i agree with what a disciple who respond: it's been a disastrous relationship i had,off course as a woman i only desire love, to love and be loved,, a lot of compromises including purity which i really regret,,, i hurt God so much i know that, and to God i humble myself and God is so merciful and gracious.... and i need to be reminded he is not slow in keepin his promise.....so if i will enter a relationship again.. i will make sure that i will ask God,,or if it will be God's will....that: i will help the man in his spirituality,all aspects....by having a goal of becoming a spiritual woman of God...lol...if God's will...coz i am aware that there are many disciples who are still single..and i lift their souls to god for their faithfulness...psalm37:4-5, which god whispered to me this morning.....i am learning now...it is best to wait for God,, he has his own timing....his works is best..and the purpose of entering a relationship, not only to be loved, i realized,but its more of finding someone who you will share your dreams with.....hebrews10:23-24 is good one too,,,making someoene encourage, smile and help someone to grow in faith...which i did not have in my relatiosnship before.....godbless us all......thanks for all your posts and insights.....thanks for taking time reading my reply...

The number one reason to date just disciples is that if you date a non disciple, you are more likely to leave the church, have premarital sex, and have children that will have no convictions about being being a disciple. I myself have some ex disciple female friends, and non disciple female friends. I have never brought them on a date. I have hung out with them, with her paying for her own meal and me paying for mine, but I would never bring them on dates. I have met a few women that have wanted to date me or have sex with me, who I told that I could only be their friends. Right now I know a man (not a member of the ICOC, but who claims to be a disciple) who is dating somebody who does not have any convictions at all. They are boyfriend and girlfriend now, but as I told him before "Dating somebody who has no convictions is just asking for trouble". I will also say this too: Dating people you meet in a newpaper personals section or online is even worse. The year before I became a disciple, when I was 27 years old, I set up a date with a woman who claimed to be 28. I got to her house to find out that she was 14 years old. I don't like using the word "loser" at all, but if you have to lower yourself to answering personals, or meeting people online, or going to bars and clubs to meet others, then you certainly are not a winner. 

I became a disciple in New York in 1988. When counting the cost I was asked if I would have a problem dating sisters of a different color. I was so thrilled at becoming a disciple that i would be grateful to be dating Godly women of any age or color. In New York we considered dating to be a vital part of your ministry and I jumped into it with great zeal. After becoming a disciple I was dating 3 times a week, not looking for a wife or trying to look cool with a beautiful woman on my arm but to encourage the sisters.

The memories of these dates remain in my mind because they were so much fun and no pressure. The Lord found me a beautiful wife a few years later and we are celebrating 19 years of marraige come January. I also have 2 wonderful sons whom I love with all my heart.

However it breaks my heart when I hear of the dating stories nowadays. Brothers being worldly in not considering dating a ministry, being ungrateful for God has provided for them. Sisters refusing to date brothers due to looking at dating from a worldly position. I know that for me, if I had married a woman who did not have Christ first in her life, neither she nor I would be together or saved by now.

We tolerate worldliness in our Churches. We are called to be lights to a lost world but how can we be, if we refuse to shine lights in our own Fellowships and avoid the light shining on us. But AMEN God is in control and He will expose our folly by our consequences. I have had much folly exposed in my own life and God is faithful and has taught me how to change and grow through it. If each one of us looks to change ourselves then the dating problem will be erased and to God be the Glory.

Amen. I agree. Sometimes, I feel very lonely. I don't remember the last time I was asked out. I stopped asking brothers out a while ago because it began to make me discouraged. However, as someone else stated, I didn't become a disciple to get married to anyone but God Himself.  I think what makes me sad is that though I still try to make friends with brothers in my local ministry as well as our churches around the world, I might spend one date or hangout and then they never contact me again. I wish that the men woudl just be willing to be friends. That hasn't been my experience. It's almost like they are afraid that I might "like" them. So, what if I do? Can't we be friends anyway? Most of my friends before I was a diciple were men. They were not impure relationships. I miss that. One time I was hanging with some brothers before a devo (I just happend to be the first sister there) and one of the brothers passed gas, started laughing and told me that if I wanted to hang out with brothers I better get used to that. I felt so disrespected. Anyway, I pray for wisdom and insight and peace in my heart daily to be the servant to others Jesus wants me to be. But, sometimes it is really hard.

Not to sound overly bitter but, I do beleive that a lot of brothers don't want to get married. Why? Because why bother when you can hang out with and date as many pretty women as you want. Also, why would they want to settle down and have a family when you can have complete freedom and $200 a month rent with 4 roommates? Or what I have also seen is 30+ year old men living with their parents. I think this is society over all but, it's sad that it's reflected in the Church.

What would be the motivation to "grow up"? Clearly this isn't every man but, it's what I have seen a lot of.

For those outside of the U.S., it's not normal to live at home when you are older.

It boils down to discipling or the lack thereof. When I was single I had brothers in my life that challenged me on my dating life. They were not afraid to go toe-to-toe with me on sensitive areas. I would question many singles today, both men and women on the level of discipling in their lives. Who are they allowing to influence them? How eager are they to hear the Truth in Love? Do they seek time with mature married disciples to gain wisdom from their experience? This is all necessary as part of our Spiritual growth.

I don't agree with forced, arranged discipling but I do agree on the need for discipling for everyone. If single men and women are not being influenced by mature examples in the Church then you will see the immature behavior you mentioned. This can be preached from the pulpit until Jesus returns but unless effective two-way discipling is embraced by each individual there will be no positive change in our ministries.

Hi everyone what Happen to the new Church dating site?

 I was wondering the same thing.....

For those of you asking about the church dating website, have you checked out https://dtheartandsoul.com/landingpage.html

Hi! This topic is very interesting. Now I am studying the bible with a man who has a girlfriend who does not look like a worldly woman who are impressive even like a disciple. Thank God, today the man is willing to take the decision to become a disciple of Jesus, repent, and be baptized, and while his girlfriend following him study the bible and try to have same perception. When I teach the guy I realized the importance of biblical principles, but also something like policy of the church that refer from biblical principles. The principle is purity and truth and the rules or the policy is dating in the church with a fellow disciple only. In other words, the rules or the policy have a clear purpose and clear reason. Hopefully can help. :-)

God bless!

Naek

It's worth to wait for one great love, handpicked and inspired by our God of love-Jesus Christ! Amen.

Be more gladly and faithfully waiting for His promise and greatest plan to unveil:-)

Amen. I agree. Sometimes, I feel very lonely. I don't remember the last time I was asked out. I stopped asking brothers out a while ago because it began to make me discouraged. However, as someone else stated, I didn't become a disciple to get married to anyone but God Himself.  I think what makes me sad is that though I still try to make friends with brothers in my local ministry as well as our churches around the world, I might spend one date or hangout and then they never contact me again. I wish that the men woudl just be willing to be friends. That hasn't been my experience. It's almost like they are afraid that I might "like" them. So, what if I do? Can't we be friends anyway? Most of my friends before I was a diciple were men. They were not impure relationships. I miss that. One time I was hanging with some brothers before a devo (I just happend to be the first sister there) and one of the brothers passed gas, started laughing and told me that if I wanted to hang out with brothers I better get used to that. I felt so disrespected. Anyway, I pray for wisdom and insight and peace in my heart daily to be the servant to others Jesus wants me to be. But, sometimes it is really hard.

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Dearest Sister,know that you have touched my heart big time in all that you have shared here. You are not alone in these area or should we call it battle:-). I just learned to surrender everything that concerns "Dating in the Kingdom nowadays" to our Father God who alone has the power to weighs the deepest of our heart and soul. PR21:2. It's so sad to really have experienced such things IN the Kingdom of God's Loving People.Let's Go and Live this beautiful Life for one Ultimate reason- Eternal Home! You are Beautiful in God's eyes, we truly are:-)

God is with Us!!!