So what are somethings that could be done to make christian music better? I feel like there is so much untapped potential for christian music, but so much of it is lost due to who it's marketed towards and just an overall lack of musicianship. I don't know if i'm alone in thinking this, but i personally want my music to actually help bring people to christ and i don't feel like Christian music is doing that in it's current form. I feel like it's marketed to people who are already Christians, and I am grateful for the inspiration that many of these songs have provided me, but what about the millions, wait, billions of people who are not Christians who have absolutely no interest in Christian music? What do you guys think?

Ah, one of the questions of the ages.

Well, first of all, we have to remember that the message of the cross is what moves people to become Christians. Moreover, when non-Christians see the message of the cross at work in our lives...so much the better. I have never relied on music as a means of moving someone to become a Christian. That's dangerous ground, because music provides an emotional appeal, and we all know how our emotions wax and wane.

It seems the way of the religious world at the moment - to "minister" to people through their music. I think some of them actually believe that people can "accept Jesus" and become Christians while they are listening to their song.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that if you want to draw people near to God through your music, then your music should simply be sincere. It should be a reflection of who you are. Your passion should come through. I don't think it even matters if the song lyrics talk about God or Jesus or anything "spiritual". People can see through fakiness and are turned off by it - especially when it comes to something as emotional as music. One of the most inspiring, heart moving songs for me personally is "I Can See Cleary Now" by Holly Cole. If you are doing what God called you to do, it will be effective. I would rather perform a piece that I've written that comes from the heart and then have somebody approach me about it. I can then build a relationship with that person. I would rather not perform a song that - for me - would be contrived and fake - especially when it comes to Jesus.

Music is a matter of taste. "Christian" music is almost a genre in and of itself. People who are not Christians are not going to be inclined to listen to Christian music no matter how good it is.

I think what you are asking in your question is "How can Christian music be made better so that non-Christians will turn their heads, ears and hearts and give it the attention we would like it to have?" I honestly think you may be asking the wrong question.

I think there is already some amazing Christian music out there. If people are not going to be drawn to Christ by the likes of Steven Curtis Chapman, David Crowder, Micheal W. Smith, Isaiah Houghton, etc. etc. etc. then it's probably not going to happen. These cats are amazingly talented, have some of the most amazing production resources and have written exceptional music. It reminds me of when Jesus told the rich man as he was suffering in torment, "If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not listen even if somebody rises from the dead." (Luke 16:31)

Another thing to consider is that music is a seed. You may not see its effect right away. I used to listen to Christian music - Petra to name one - when I was a freshman in High School. I didn't become a Christian until many years later, but I think the fact that I listened to that music earlier in my life - which was a decision based on the fact that I was pursuing God and not on the fact that Petra had this amazingly hip cool sound that I just had to check out - had an effect on me. Now, more than 20 years later, I still have those songs memorized - though I may not have heard them since back in the day.

One thing is for sure. The reason people have no interest in Christian music is not because it isn't good, but because they have no interest in Christ! They are interested and fascinated by the world. God help us if we want to become like the world!

I welcome your feedback.

I agree with almost all of what you said. I guess I listen to a lot of music that is not Christian and i get so inspired and moved and I can't understand why most of Christian music does not do the same for me. I want to make music that is spiritual that moves me the way an SRV or Metallica song does(Fade to Black does indeed move me!!). I think that's what i was trying to say. I agree that coming to Christ because of a song is very dangerous for the reasons you mentioned but i want to make music that glorifies God and advances his kingdom. I guess i'm just trying to figure out the best way to do that while still staying true to who I am as a Chrstian and a musician. I dunno what do you guys think

"THE AIM AND FINAL END OF ALL MUSIC SHOULD BE NONE OTHER THAN THE GLORY OF GOD AND THE REFRESHMENT OF THE SOUL."
- J.S. Bach

 It's amazing to me how much of the music today, whether spiritual or secular, is nothing more than a way to gain this world's highest idol...$ The Almighty Dollar $. The musicians of the past weren't consumed with this pettiness. They created musical compositions that stand to this day as great masterpieces, just as do Da Vinci's Last Supper and Michaelangelos's Statue of David (It was Mike, right?!) They weren't looking for their own glory...they glorified God with their talents and works, and God blessed their works. They knew where such talents come from, and they gave it back in reverance as an offering. Can we truly say the same of modern musicians, including you and me?

 As I read the Bible more and more, it becomes ever more clear that it's not about the music. When you get down to it, music is nothing more than air molecules being moved around into waves at different frequencies. It's no different than light. We don't worship light, nor should we worship sound. It should be about our hearts towards God Almighty and the love He gave to all of us at the Cross.

  COLOSSIANS 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

  EPHESIANS 5:18-20 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  ECCLESIATES 3:12-14 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God. I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.

 I don't think that it's the styles of music that makes it spiritual. The Rock group Kansas has at least two classic songs that can be deemed spiritual if you read the lyrics - "Dust In the Wind" and "Carry On My Wayward Son". Should we give up listening to them just because they aren't played on Christian radio?

 I believe that as long as we keep God as the focal point of ANYTHING we do, He will bless our endeavors. God is only interested in our hearts and our desire to be with Him. If we truly wish to follow Jesus to get to Him, then we will know, through His Holy Spirit, what we should and should listen to, what we say, how we act, how we live our lives. And THAT is what will attract people to the Gospels and to His Glory. Nothing else will. Worldly people DO NOT go for any hypocrisy...especially from those that call themselves Christian. And truthfully...they would be correct.

 In conclusion, it's not our deeds, music nor otherwise. It's our hearts for God.

 God Bless everyone, and I hope this helps a bit.

Eric Omlor

Wow, this is a great group and a great thread. There are some wonderful thoughts being shared here, and bringing Scripture into the discussion is definitely awesome. I'd like to share some ideas that this discussion sparked in my mind, and some things from my own experience that may be thought-provoking.

Music really is a matter of taste - just look at how divided Christians themselves can be over it! The "Christian" market is huge - and it is a market, just as folk, techno and death metal are - you might be shocked to find out how many are making a decent living with no relationship with God or ministry to others.

Besides, as has been said, many intelligent music listeners will reject anything outright that has the term "Christian" even distantly associated with it, no matter how well written, performed, produced or marketed it is.

Music is a neutral power (and a wondrous gift) that, like anything else God created, can be used for good or corrupted by the evil one. Music can be a powerful tool for people whose hearts are inclined toward Him in the first place - and it has little to do with its genre, or even lyrical content! I have a short tale to illustrate this.

About 20 years ago I was playing in a Top 40 band in the Boston area (we were all disciples), and we had this gig at the Air Force Base club. It was snowing - blizzard conditions - and there were only two patrons in the place. We were playing pop music, which doesn't require much in the way of wailing guitar. Our set was sounding dull, the snow was piling up and I was getting bored.

We were playing a song by the Jets, and when my solo came up, I stepped on my heavy-duty rock pedal and just shredded it. When we took our break, one of the guys waved us over to his table, saying that it was the most amazing solo he'd ever heard (!). Long story short, we shared with him and invited him to church, and the rest is history. As far as I know, he's still faithful.

I was fortunate to have a musical role in a gigantic annual Christmas show in one church that had a tremendous impact on the community. Non-Christians decided to visit church and study the Bible simply because of the show. We used a variety of music - rock, gospel, country, reggae - and the acting, singing, orchestration, lights - all were done excellently.

But it was the message, and the hearts of everyone involved, that drew people in. I guess I've said all that just to say, Be yourself. God will lead you, and if it's in His plan, He'll use you to create music that plants seeds - or simply grabs someone's attention - and your life can influence the lives of those you meet along the way. That's how you will make Christian music better.

YBIC,

Todd

I have to say Steve is right. When I had no interest in Christ, I also had no interest in Christian music. However, music is a very spiritual thing for me and has been all my life. As, a singer I would say that its not the song your singing, but the sincerity in which convey through the music. I know that when a song doesn't mean a whole lot to me it shows and it touches no one. But when it is a song that inspires and moves me I can see that it inspires and move others. Some of my favorite songs to sing at church are not of the Christian genre, but they have a message that I believe God would approve of. My friends that are in the world, however, cannot see the connection that I do.

As far as Christian music today, I am learning that it is a bit more relatible than what I can remember when I was younger. I love Barlow Girl and Fire Flight there lyrics are great as well as Casting Crowns and Lifehouse....I have been a disciple for 2 years and I am just now getting into "Christian" music outside of our church hymnals.

Werd on that! I too am trying to find myself as a musician in the Christian realm. The more I play, the more evident it is that I will never be the greatest recording artist on the face of the earth and play a world tour in front of thousands each night, as was my dream when I was in college and playing several hours per day. If we worship a God who is greater than all things on the earth, why can't Christians come up with music that is greater than what those in the world can do? This is one of the classic Psalm 73 battle for me.

Glorifying God for me comes from my doing what is right in his eyes (leading myself, wife and children to follow him) and when I play something that moves people it is really to God's glory because of the amount of time I DON'T practice like I used to anymore, and it takes the spirit of God to influence others through my playing.

I am NOT advocating lack of practice, this is just my perspective. If you are a full-time musician work like you are working for the Lord...and be the most excellent musician you can in more ways than just the technical aspects of your musicianship. Even Sonny Rollins and Charles Mingus (non-Jesus worshippers in my book) admitted to the spiritual aspects of music impacting those who listen to a 'spiritual' person play.

Looking forward to connecting with everyone here. Let's create some great inspiring stuff for the rest of the world!

-C

Wow-Gr8 Group!  Some wonderful ideas being shared-it's great to be a part of something that is only going to get bigger and better...As far as using music to reach the peeps out there? Like a lot of things, i truly believe that music can be used to plant a seed.  I tend to agree with Sard about 'Christian Music'-I feel for the most part that the 'Christian music' community, although very sincere most of the time, feels that the music can convert people to Christianity and I think the music can suffer because of that. What I mean is if you write songs with the goal of trying to convert peeps to Christianity, then alot of times you may not be writing whats on your heart.  I feel thats why some of the music i hear in this genre comes across a bit generic to me.  Now there are always exceptions, and i truly feel that we have some awesome musicians in the kingdom that have put out 'Christian' recordings, but i know a few of these musicians and have had the pleasure of jamming with some of them and i know that there intention isn't to convert but to inspire...and that plants the seed!  I personally like secular bands that have a spiritually tinged or inspirational theme to there songs like Rush (can i get a holler from some of the fellow percussionist out there;), Yes, Creed, heck even Metallica like our friend Sard alluded to has some moving stuff.  I think any style of music has the ability to inspire and God gave us a talent to use toward that purpose-just be sure you groove to the beat of your own rhythm and the heartbeat of your soul that God uniquely gave to you to help inspire and plant the seed...

Great thread all!  I agree that music is not shown as a means of evangelism in the Scriptures.  There were so many good points made, I won't comment anymore on that.

But one thing to all who are interested in making music that is going to honor God:

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Just be wise and work hard at it.  God will choose what He will to bless, or redirect.

I look forward to hearing some great music come from the collaborations on this site!

 - Eric Smith

I have worked in both the secular and Christian music industries. I agree that in general the quality of the music is not as high in the Christian genre, and it's marketed to people who are already Christians. Alot of Christian music just does not ring true to me. It just seem very superficial and fake.

Since being baptised in 2001(Feb. 18) I have turned down several opportunities to tour with secular bands, mainly because I did not want to be seperated from the body. I also felt that I would surely fall with no other disciples to help hold me accountable.

I have spent several years forming a band of disciples, that is NOT a Christian band. Our vision is to reach people in the industry who would not be inclined to attend Church. We choose not to preach at people with our music. We write about life, and life's struggles, and how we face them as Christians. We have a song about a guy I studied the Bible with for a very long time, who was shot and killed while trying to buy crack cocaine. We have a song about trying to forgive a man who molested someone very close to me. These are not very happy topics, but if nothing else they are REAL, which is something that is absent in most Christian music in my opinion.

Rob,

I like the idea of the way your band does it.  While I do love some christian music, along the worship lines, most is just so hokey and preachy that it's hard to stomach.  But I wish there where more groups that wrote songs like your's does. One of my favorite groups is P.O.D. as their music is issue oriented, and not preachy, yet some of their songs really move moe.

You ever look at a real diamond up close?  They're fantastic.  color, depth, clarity...every time youlook at it, the light hits it in a slightly different way and you get the sparkle.  Differing viewpoints surrounding the essential core that is MUSIC. 

Here's another one. 

Ready?

Humility. 

don't be so ready to dismiss it with a "well...yeah...of course!"   Humility is the main thing we as flawed creatures lack, especially in the creative fields.  We compete, compare, get our sense of selves, and our deification from this attack on the senses.  We need to be respected, loved, admired, popular, paid and well known.  Some of us can handle this spiritually and most of us cannot.  I'm pretty sure im in the CANNOT group.  But can we be at peace about this?

I have served in a few of our churches.  In the 15 years that God has allowed me to know his people maybe 3 stand out as examples in the fight against this.  Countchunkula, whom i serve with in Nashville, his cowriter and our brother Joel (whom i affectionately call "little spoon") and Michael Jackson...just checking to see if you're still reading...

Thess 4:4-6 comes to mind, for that matter Eph 4: 19

skills some of us have, desire a lot of us have, humility most of us have not.

peace and chicken

JonQMusic

Thank you all for your inputs. This is what I’m seeing. There is Christian music and there are Christian lyrics. You should know which of the two that arguably gets people’s attention as the Bible would. Understand what I’m saying? It’s the lyrics that reflect the Word of God. You are relaying a message from the Scriptures to people who would otherwise not hear the Word to be inspired. And quite honestly, it should inspire people who are not in Christ to seek the truth. Pertaining to the brother’s question of what can make Christian music better; it has to be the dialogue of the recording. What is the problem with the many Christian songs today? They are Worldly Christian songs and not God-Inspired Christian songs. In other words imagine Paul, James, Peter and John were the singers and musicians performing what they wrote which we have in the Bible. First of all, that would make an Awesome Rock Band! Forget about Creed or Third Day. Unfortunately, secular music sounds more real than Christian music because the worldly performers sing about REAL issues. Sadly, many of these Christian singers write about what most people can not relate to. The prophets of the Bible write about real issues: love, money, sex, debauchery, consideration, brotherhood, favoritism, hatred, fear, boldness, aspirations and so on… They write about issues that man deal with and what are God’s perspectives on those matters. These Worldly Christians, as I like to call them, sing about things that lack conviction and things not capable of feeding the soul that yearns for the call of its Creator. Their songs are filled with a lot of fluffy, world-radio friendly dialogue. Yes, we should sing “Praise the Lord” songs because God is worthy of that, but is that what proved what a wretched sinner you are? Is this the kind of material that caused you to “Make every effort to enter the Kingdom of God”? Does the scripture reads "praise the lord, praise the lord, praise the lord, now repent"? I hope you get what I’m saying here. You want people to be affected by your songs about Jesus and God so they might come "running through the doors", you need to write and perform materials as the Bible displays, about issues of what worldly people can relate to and so develop an open heart to desire God’s will and be lead to repentance. I have much more to say, but I hope these points out the importance of what you are trying to accomplish here. In Christ.